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  • 1.  Sustainability and nuclear energy

    Posted 05-08-2006 15:03
    So here's a thought exercise for those sustainability savants..

    Is nuclear energy sustainable? See if you can answer this without invoking
    an ideolologica/political concept such as
    the "precautionary notion."

    Use cost-benefit analysis. Ground your answer in the context of the real
    world, where hard choices between energy
    sources are being made whether we like it or not. After all, let's hope we
    want this debate to be more than just
    'academic' (used in the pejorative) and actually lead to constructive
    solutions to managing the environment.

    It might also be helpful to draw comparisons with, say, the practice of
    recycling in industrial economies. Many
    studies have shown that the recyclable industry infrastructure, involving
    heavy use of natural resource powered
    trucks to pick up recyclables and transport them, where they are then
    processed using machinery run by carbon
    based energy, is extremely wasteful (or 'non-sustainable', you might say).

    Jon

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  • 2.  Sustainability and nuclear energy

    Posted 05-08-2006 18:39
    Perhaps if we accepted that we do not have a right to drive everywhere
    and consume endless streams of energy - perhaps if we accepted the duty
    to ride a bike and wear appropriate levels of clothing - perhaps if we
    accepted that we sometimes have to walk, be cold and be uncomfortable.
    Perhaps then we would not need nuclear energy. Until that happens,
    until people accept the consequences of their actions we will need some
    alternate source of energy. However, if you consider the vast
    population of overweight, alcoholic, addicted gamblers (if they do want
    to change look for a quick fix) soon becomes clear that most people are
    unable to make the connection between cause and effect and others simply
    do not care.

    Start out by joining critical mass http://www.criticalmass.org.au/ and
    ride your bike to work. If it is too far to ride your bike move or get
    a new job.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    ICSB2006 Conference - Proceedings Compiler

    Research Fellow - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Centre for Management Quality Research
    Read my book: http://intergon.net/tsw
    $45 see http://intergon.net/rvrpd

    >>> runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET 09/05/2006 5:03 am >>>
    So here's a thought exercise for those sustainability savants..

    Is nuclear energy sustainable? See if you can answer this without
    invoking
    an ideolologica/political concept such as
    the "precautionary notion."

    Use cost-benefit analysis. Ground your answer in the context of the
    real
    world, where hard choices between energy
    sources are being made whether we like it or not. After all, let's hope
    we
    want this debate to be more than just
    'academic' (used in the pejorative) and actually lead to constructive
    solutions to managing the environment.

    It might also be helpful to draw comparisons with, say, the practice
    of
    recycling in industrial economies. Many
    studies have shown that the recyclable industry infrastructure,
    involving
    heavy use of natural resource powered
    trucks to pick up recyclables and transport them, where they are then
    processed using machinery run by carbon
    based energy, is extremely wasteful (or 'non-sustainable', you might
    say).

    Jon

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    mail2web - Check your email from the web at
    http://mail2web.com/ .


  • 3.  Sustainability and nuclear energy

    Posted 05-08-2006 18:58
    Please---this is why we need metrics. I'm sure the developing world will be thrilled by your recomendation that they forgo industrialization and stick to organic farming.

    Your statement is as right wing and anti-progressive as I could imagine.

    Why don't we just move out of the cities and join the Amish...

    please...this is a real world out there. Try visiting the developing world or the new industrial socities like the Asian Tigers before you apply your ultra-conservative upper middle class view of the world on the rest of humanity. Been to Tasmania lately?

    Jon

    -----Original Message-----
    >From: Lionel Boxer <lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au>
    >Sent: May 8, 2006 6:39 PM
    >To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU, runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET
    >Subject: Re: Sustainability and nuclear energy
    >
    >Perhaps if we accepted that we do not have a right to drive everywhere
    >and consume endless streams of energy - perhaps if we accepted the duty
    >to ride a bike and wear appropriate levels of clothing - perhaps if we
    >accepted that we sometimes have to walk, be cold and be uncomfortable.
    >Perhaps then we would not need nuclear energy. Until that happens,
    >until people accept the consequences of their actions we will need some
    >alternate source of energy. However, if you consider the vast
    >population of overweight, alcoholic, addicted gamblers (if they do want
    >to change look for a quick fix) soon becomes clear that most people are
    >unable to make the connection between cause and effect and others simply
    >do not care.
    >
    >Start out by joining critical mass http://www.criticalmass.org.au/ and
    >ride your bike to work. If it is too far to ride your bike move or get
    >a new job.
    >
    >Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    >ICSB2006 Conference - Proceedings Compiler
    >
    >Research Fellow - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    >Centre for Management Quality Research
    >Read my book: http://intergon.net/tsw
    >$45 see http://intergon.net/rvrpd
    >
    >>>> runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET 09/05/2006 5:03 am >>>
    >So here's a thought exercise for those sustainability savants..
    >
    >Is nuclear energy sustainable? See if you can answer this without
    >invoking
    >an ideolologica/political concept such as
    >the "precautionary notion."
    >
    >Use cost-benefit analysis. Ground your answer in the context of the
    >real
    >world, where hard choices between energy
    >sources are being made whether we like it or not. After all, let's hope
    >we
    >want this debate to be more than just
    >'academic' (used in the pejorative) and actually lead to constructive
    >solutions to managing the environment.
    >
    >It might also be helpful to draw comparisons with, say, the practice
    >of
    >recycling in industrial economies. Many
    >studies have shown that the recyclable industry infrastructure,
    >involving
    >heavy use of natural resource powered
    >trucks to pick up recyclables and transport them, where they are then
    >processed using machinery run by carbon
    >based energy, is extremely wasteful (or 'non-sustainable', you might
    >say).
    >
    >Jon
    >
    >--------------------------------------------------------------------
    >mail2web - Check your email from the web at
    >http://mail2web.com/ .


  • 4.  Sustainability and nuclear energy

    Posted 05-08-2006 20:49
    There is nothing right wing about riding bikes; the Amish are not
    permitted to ride bikes. I ride a bike daily to work and elsewhere.
    Sometimes I even walk. I have two cars in which I carry loads and
    family that I cannot carry in a backpack.

    Industrialisation is one thing, but if you drive cars unecessarily, eat
    too much, gamble beyond your means, and overheat your house you are
    going to use up traditional energy sources and create other painful
    situations.

    People survived in the real world without cars and heating for millions
    of years. Walk and, if you are cold, wear a jumper/sweater. Use both
    sides of a piece of paper, put your kitchen scraps in the garden, etc
    etc...

    Re: have a I ever been to Tasmania. I enjoy Tasmania. When I was
    there for a conference I stayed in the Casino. I have a strong
    recollection of too many overweight gamblers. On other occasions I have
    stayed elsewhere in Hobart, Cradle Mountain, Burney and Launceston.

    I have also been to Nepal, where I mostly walked except when we took a
    bus to the foothills (where we also walked).

    Jon. It appears to me that you are on the one hand imposing
    constraints on society, but unable to realise you yourself need
    restraint. We all need to regulate our lives and actions if we are to
    exist in harmony. If that sort of responsiblity is right wing then what
    is left wing: unbridled consumption and refusal to accept the
    consequences of one's actions? Perhaps that explains the late 1990s
    Kirner government's (State of Victoria, Australia) economic
    performance.

    My comment was that if we are irresponsible with energy then nuclear
    energy may be the only alternative. Windmills are fine, but if you have
    too many you create too much wind.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    ICSB2006 Conference - Proceedings Compiler

    Research Fellow - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Centre for Management Quality Research
    Read my book: http://intergon.net/tsw
    $45 see http://intergon.net/rvrpd

    >>> runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET 09/05/2006 8:57 am >>>
    Please---this is why we need metrics. I'm sure the developing world
    will be thrilled by your recomendation that they forgo industrialization
    and stick to organic farming.

    Your statement is as right wing and anti-progressive as I could
    imagine.

    Why don't we just move out of the cities and join the Amish...

    please...this is a real world out there. Try visiting the developing
    world or the new industrial socities like the Asian Tigers before you
    apply your ultra-conservative upper middle class view of the world on
    the rest of humanity. Been to Tasmania lately?

    Jon

    -----Original Message-----
    >From: Lionel Boxer <lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au>
    >Sent: May 8, 2006 6:39 PM
    >To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU, runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET
    >Subject: Re: Sustainability and nuclear energy
    >
    >Perhaps if we accepted that we do not have a right to drive
    everywhere
    >and consume endless streams of energy - perhaps if we accepted the
    duty
    >to ride a bike and wear appropriate levels of clothing - perhaps if
    we
    >accepted that we sometimes have to walk, be cold and be uncomfortable.

    >Perhaps then we would not need nuclear energy. Until that happens,
    >until people accept the consequences of their actions we will need
    some
    >alternate source of energy. However, if you consider the vast
    >population of overweight, alcoholic, addicted gamblers (if they do
    want
    >to change look for a quick fix) soon becomes clear that most people
    are
    >unable to make the connection between cause and effect and others
    simply
    >do not care.
    >
    >Start out by joining critical mass http://www.criticalmass.org.au/
    and
    >ride your bike to work. If it is too far to ride your bike move or
    get
    >a new job.
    >
    >Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    >ICSB2006 Conference - Proceedings Compiler
    >
    >Research Fellow - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    >Centre for Management Quality Research
    >Read my book: http://intergon.net/tsw
    >$45 see http://intergon.net/rvrpd
    >
    >>>> runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET 09/05/2006 5:03 am >>>
    >So here's a thought exercise for those sustainability savants..
    >
    >Is nuclear energy sustainable? See if you can answer this without
    >invoking
    >an ideolologica/political concept such as
    >the "precautionary notion."
    >
    >Use cost-benefit analysis. Ground your answer in the context of the
    >real
    >world, where hard choices between energy
    >sources are being made whether we like it or not. After all, let's
    hope
    >we
    >want this debate to be more than just
    >'academic' (used in the pejorative) and actually lead to constructive
    >solutions to managing the environment.
    >
    >It might also be helpful to draw comparisons with, say, the practice
    >of
    >recycling in industrial economies. Many
    >studies have shown that the recyclable industry infrastructure,
    >involving
    >heavy use of natural resource powered
    >trucks to pick up recyclables and transport them, where they are then
    >processed using machinery run by carbon
    >based energy, is extremely wasteful (or 'non-sustainable', you might
    >say).
    >
    >Jon
    >
    >--------------------------------------------------------------------
    >mail2web - Check your email from the web at
    >http://mail2web.com/ .