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All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

  • 1.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-13-2010 01:50

    I just read Bill Gates speech and was heartened.  "The world must eliminate all of its carbon emissions and cut energy costs in half in order to prevent a climate catastrophe, which will hit the world's poor hardest, he said."

    ....

    Gates said the deadline for the world to cut all of its carbon emissions is 2050. He suggested that researchers spend the next 20 years inventing and perfecting clean-energy technologies, and then the next 20 years implementing them.

    ....

    Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into electricity.

     

    That technology could power the world indefinitely; spent uranium supplies in the U.S. alone could power the country for 100 years, he said.

     

    A "traveling wave reactor" would burn uranium waste slowly, meaning a 60-year supply could be added to a reactor at once and then not touched for decades, he said.

    ....

    READ it all at:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/index.html

    Best regards,

    Charles Wankel

    St. John's University, New York

    http://facpub.stjohns.edu/~wankelc
    Add me on LinkedIn:  http://www.linkedin.com/in/wankelc

    My book: Innovative Approaches to Global Sustainability (Amazon etc.)

     



  • 2.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-13-2010 08:26

    And Gates calls these energy technologies "miracles"  - unfortunately, I'm not expecting any divine intervention, especially from the guy who runs a company whose software has daily meltdowns.

    Nuclear isn't cheap or clean (though I've come to think it's far safer than coal...)

     

    Cheers

    David

     

    David L. Levy

    Professor and Chair

    Department of Management and Marketing
    <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype> of <st1:placename w:st="on">Massachusetts</st1:placename>, <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Boston</st1:place></st1:city>

    100 Morrissey Blvd., Boston, MA 02125, USA
    http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/

    Climate">http://climateinc.org/">Climate Inc. - Business and Climate Change Blog

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I just read Bill Gates speech and was heartened.  "The world must eliminate all of its carbon emissions and cut energy costs in half in order to prevent a climate catastrophe, which will hit the world's poor hardest, he said."

    ....

    Gates said the deadline for the world to cut all of its carbon emissions is 2050. He suggested that researchers spend the next 20 years inventing and perfecting clean-energy technologies, and then the next 20 years implementing them.

    ....

    Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into electricity.

     

    That technology could power the world indefinitely; spent uranium supplies in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> alone could power the country for 100 years, he said.

     

    A "traveling wave reactor" would burn uranium waste slowly, meaning a 60-year supply could be added to a reactor at once and then not touched for decades, he said.

    ....

    READ it all at:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/index.html

    Best regards,

    Charles Wankel

     

     



  • 3.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-13-2010 08:48
    Great issue, David, but also the guy who has given more to charity than all foundations to date...  Quite the conundrum wrapped in an enigma...

    Bruce

    On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 8:26 AM, David L. Levy <David.Levy@umb.edu> wrote:

    And Gates calls these energy technologies "miracles"  - unfortunately, I'm not expecting any divine intervention, especially from the guy who runs a company whose software has daily meltdowns.

    Nuclear isn't cheap or clean (though I've come to think it's far safer than coal...)

     

    Cheers

    David

     

    David L. Levy

    Professor and Chair

    Department of Management and Marketing
    University of Massachusetts, Boston

    100 Morrissey Blvd., Boston, MA 02125, USA
    http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/

    http://climateinc.org/" target="_blank">Climate Inc. - Business and Climate Change Blog

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I just read Bill Gates speech and was heartened.  "The world must eliminate all of its carbon emissions and cut energy costs in half in order to prevent a climate catastrophe, which will hit the world's poor hardest, he said."

    ....

    Gates said the deadline for the world to cut all of its carbon emissions is 2050. He suggested that researchers spend the next 20 years inventing and perfecting clean-energy technologies, and then the next 20 years implementing them.

    ....

    Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into electricity.

     

    That technology could power the world indefinitely; spent uranium supplies in the U.S. alone could power the country for 100 years, he said.

     

    A "traveling wave reactor" would burn uranium waste slowly, meaning a 60-year supply could be added to a reactor at once and then not touched for decades, he said.

    ....

    READ it all at:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/index.html

    Best regards,

    Charles Wankel

     

     




    --
    Bruce Clemens PhD PE
    Management Department
    School of Business
    109 Churchill Hall
    Western New England College
    1215 Wilbraham Road
    Springfield MA 01119
    Phone: 413-782-1500
    Fax: 413-796-2068
    bclemens@wnec.edu
    Campus mailbox number: C5433

    Please consider your environmental responsibilities before printing this e-mail


  • 4.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-13-2010 14:56
    Having grown up in Toronto, Canada from 1957 to 1987 I am convinced that nuclear power generation is safe. (However, I understand that Canadian reactors are much safer than those made in the rest of the world.) My impression is that we need to stop using coal and switch to hydro electric or nuclear energy. The other option is to cull 90 percent of the human race - Soilent Green and Logan's Run were films that explored that option.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> "David L. Levy" <David.Levy@UMB.EDU> 14/02/10 12:31 AM >>>
    And Gates calls these energy technologies "miracles" - unfortunately,
    I'm not expecting any divine intervention, especially from the guy who
    runs a company whose software has daily meltdowns.

    Nuclear isn't cheap or clean (though I've come to think it's far safer
    than coal...)



    Cheers

    David



    David L. Levy

    Professor and Chair

    Department of Management and Marketing
    University of Massachusetts, Boston

    100 Morrissey Blvd., Boston, MA 02125, USA
    http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/
    <http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/>

    Climate Inc. <http://climateinc.org/> - Business and Climate Change
    Blog



    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I just read Bill Gates speech and was heartened. "The world must
    eliminate all of its carbon emissions and cut energy costs in half in
    order to prevent a climate catastrophe, which will hit the world's poor
    hardest, he said."

    ....

    Gates said the deadline for the world to cut all of its carbon emissions
    is 2050. He suggested that researchers spend the next 20 years inventing
    and perfecting clean-energy technologies, and then the next 20 years
    implementing them.

    ....

    Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear
    technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium
    rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into
    electricity.



    That technology could power the world indefinitely; spent uranium
    supplies in the U.S. alone could power the country for 100 years, he
    said.



    A "traveling wave reactor" would burn uranium waste slowly, meaning a
    60-year supply could be added to a reactor at once and then not touched
    for decades, he said.

    ....

    READ it all at:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/index.html

    Best regards,

    Charles Wankel


  • 5.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-13-2010 15:10
    hi lionel,
    i'm wondering where the high level radioactive waste from those thirty
    years of nuclear power generation in toronto went to . . .
    cheers,
    craig

    craig k harris
    department of sociology
    michigan agricultural experiment station
    national food safety and toxicology center
    institute for food and agriculture standards
    food safety policy center
    michigan state university


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion
    [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:56 PM
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent
    uranium rods into electricity .....

    Having grown up in Toronto, Canada from 1957 to 1987 I am convinced that
    nuclear power generation is safe. (However, I understand that Canadian
    reactors are much safer than those made in the rest of the world.) My
    impression is that we need to stop using coal and switch to hydro
    electric or nuclear energy. The other option is to cull 90 percent of
    the human race - Soilent Green and Logan's Run were films that explored
    that option.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> "David L. Levy" <David.Levy@UMB.EDU> 14/02/10 12:31 AM >>>
    And Gates calls these energy technologies "miracles" - unfortunately,
    I'm not expecting any divine intervention, especially from the guy who
    runs a company whose software has daily meltdowns.

    Nuclear isn't cheap or clean (though I've come to think it's far safer
    than coal...)



    Cheers

    David



    David L. Levy

    Professor and Chair

    Department of Management and Marketing
    University of Massachusetts, Boston

    100 Morrissey Blvd., Boston, MA 02125, USA
    http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/
    <http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/>

    Climate Inc. <http://climateinc.org/> - Business and Climate Change
    Blog



    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I just read Bill Gates speech and was heartened. "The world must
    eliminate all of its carbon emissions and cut energy costs in half in
    order to prevent a climate catastrophe, which will hit the world's poor
    hardest, he said."

    ....

    Gates said the deadline for the world to cut all of its carbon emissions
    is 2050. He suggested that researchers spend the next 20 years inventing
    and perfecting clean-energy technologies, and then the next 20 years
    implementing them.

    ....

    Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear
    technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium
    rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into
    electricity.



    That technology could power the world indefinitely; spent uranium
    supplies in the U.S. alone could power the country for 100 years, he
    said.



    A "traveling wave reactor" would burn uranium waste slowly, meaning a
    60-year supply could be added to a reactor at once and then not touched
    for decades, he said.

    ....

    READ it all at:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/index.html

    Best regards,

    Charles Wankel






    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
    signature database 4864 (20100213) __________

    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

    http://www.eset.com



    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
    signature database 4864 (20100213) __________

    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

    http://www.eset.com


  • 6.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-13-2010 17:31
    To those who think that nuclear energy is or might be a good option, please read Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow.

    http://www.amazon.com/Normal-Accidents-Living-High-Risk-Technologies/dp/0691004129

    After this, think about all the costs and risks of nuclear technology from a complete life cycle perspective and weigh that against other options like truly clean, safe approaches such as solar, wind and tidal energy sources. It's not as if it's harder to develop these latter approaches (and others that would fall into the clean, safe, renewable category) than nuclear - it's just that we've had an incredibly powerful nuclear power industry pushing that agenda such that the political will (and investment) has been one sided, against the other technologies.

    I previously worked in the energy industry. I can tell you that they are a bunch of dinosaurs and as they go extinct, they will take us with them, if we listen to them.

    I also worked for IBM and never listen to Bill Gates :-) At work, we passed a computer game around that allowed us to throw pies at his face (ha, ha!). By the way, there was also a study done that wind energy could power the world many times over without any other energy sources. Why do we need "traveling wave reactors, etc." when we have the sun?! I do not understand how anyone could be so naive as to listen to Bill Gates and the nuclear industry.

    Cheers,

    Dr. Debbie de Lange
    Strategy and International Business
    Suffolk University
    Sawyer Business School
    8 Ashburton Place
    Boston, MA
    USA 02108-2770
    617-573-8794


  • 7.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-13-2010 20:03
    Craig,

    Most of the high-level waste is sitting in pools of water at the individual nuclear reactors.

    Bruce

    On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Debbie de Lange <ddelange@suffolk.edu> wrote:
    To those who think that nuclear energy is or might be a good option, please read Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow.

    http://www.amazon.com/Normal-Accidents-Living-High-Risk-Technologies/dp/0691004129

    After this, think about all the costs and risks of nuclear technology from a complete life cycle perspective and weigh that against other options like truly clean, safe approaches such as solar, wind and tidal energy sources. It's not as if it's harder to develop these latter approaches (and others that would fall into the clean, safe, renewable category) than nuclear - it's just that we've had an incredibly powerful nuclear power industry pushing that agenda such that the political will (and investment) has been one sided, against the other technologies.

    I previously worked in the energy industry. I can tell you that they are a bunch of dinosaurs and as they go extinct, they will take us with them, if we listen to them.

    I also worked for IBM and never listen to Bill Gates :-) At work, we passed a computer game around that allowed us to throw pies at his face (ha, ha!). By the way, there was also a study done that wind energy could power the world many times over without any other energy sources. Why do we need "traveling wave reactors, etc." when we have the sun?! I do not understand how anyone could be so naive as to listen to Bill Gates and the nuclear industry.

    Cheers,

    Dr. Debbie de Lange
    Strategy and International Business
    Suffolk University
    Sawyer Business School
    8 Ashburton Place
    Boston, MA
    USA 02108-2770
    617-573-8794

    hi lionel,
    i'm wondering where the high level radioactive waste from those thirty
    years of nuclear power generation in toronto went to . . .
    cheers,
    craig

    craig k harris
    department of sociology
    michigan agricultural experiment station
    national food safety and toxicology center
    institute for food and agriculture standards
    food safety policy center
    michigan state university


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion
    [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:56 PM
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent
    uranium rods into electricity .....

    Having grown up in Toronto, Canada from 1957 to 1987 I am convinced that
    nuclear power generation is safe.  (However, I understand that Canadian
    reactors are much safer than those made in the rest of the world.) My
    impression is that we need to stop using coal and switch to hydro
    electric or nuclear energy.  The other option is to cull 90 percent of
    the human race - Soilent Green and Logan's Run were films that explored
    that option.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> "David L. Levy" <David.Levy@UMB.EDU> 14/02/10 12:31 AM >>>
    And Gates calls these energy technologies "miracles"  - unfortunately,
    I'm not expecting any divine intervention, especially from the guy who
    runs a company whose software has daily meltdowns.

    Nuclear isn't cheap or clean (though I've come to think it's far safer
    than coal...)



    Cheers

    David



    David L. Levy

    Professor and Chair

    Department of Management and Marketing
    University of Massachusetts, Boston

    100 Morrissey Blvd., Boston, MA 02125, USA
    http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/
    <http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/>

    Climate Inc. <http://climateinc.org/>  - Business and Climate Change
    Blog



    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I just read Bill Gates speech and was heartened.  "The world must
    eliminate all of its carbon emissions and cut energy costs in half in
    order to prevent a climate catastrophe, which will hit the world's poor
    hardest, he said."

    ....

    Gates said the deadline for the world to cut all of its carbon emissions
    is 2050. He suggested that researchers spend the next 20 years inventing
    and perfecting clean-energy technologies, and then the next 20 years
    implementing them.

    ....

    Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear
    technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium
    rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into
    electricity.



    That technology could power the world indefinitely; spent uranium
    supplies in the U.S. alone could power the country for 100 years, he
    said.



    A "traveling wave reactor" would burn uranium waste slowly, meaning a
    60-year supply could be added to a reactor at once and then not touched
    for decades, he said.

    ....

    READ it all at:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/index.html

    Best regards,

    Charles Wankel






    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
    signature database 4864 (20100213) __________

    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

    http://www.eset.com



    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
    signature database 4864 (20100213) __________

    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

    http://www.eset.com





    --
    Bruce Clemens PhD PE
    Management Department
    School of Business
    109 Churchill Hall
    Western New England College
    1215 Wilbraham Road
    Springfield MA 01119
    Phone: 413-782-1500
    Fax: 413-796-2068
    bclemens@wnec.edu
    Campus mailbox number: C5433

    Please consider your environmental responsibilities before printing this e-mail


  • 8.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-14-2010 04:31
    You would have to ask Ontario Hydro and the other operators of these things about where they send their high level radioactive waste. Now that I live in Australia it is not an issue to me.

    However, in Australia we burn too much brown coal (which is partially formed coal and less efficient burning that fully formed coal).

    My preference is not to need so much electricity. The root cause of the problem is too many people. So, we need to cap the level of human population at about 10% of the current global population. WWIII should take care of establishing that datum.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> "Harris, Craig" <Craig.Harris@SSC.MSU.EDU> 14/02/10 8:17 AM >>>
    hi lionel,
    i'm wondering where the high level radioactive waste from those thirty
    years of nuclear power generation in toronto went to . . .
    cheers,
    craig

    craig k harris
    department of sociology
    michigan agricultural experiment station
    national food safety and toxicology center
    institute for food and agriculture standards
    food safety policy center
    michigan state university


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion
    [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:56 PM
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent
    uranium rods into electricity .....

    Having grown up in Toronto, Canada from 1957 to 1987 I am convinced that
    nuclear power generation is safe. (However, I understand that Canadian
    reactors are much safer than those made in the rest of the world.) My
    impression is that we need to stop using coal and switch to hydro
    electric or nuclear energy. The other option is to cull 90 percent of
    the human race - Soilent Green and Logan's Run were films that explored
    that option.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> "David L. Levy" <David.Levy@UMB.EDU> 14/02/10 12:31 AM >>>
    And Gates calls these energy technologies "miracles" - unfortunately,
    I'm not expecting any divine intervention, especially from the guy who
    runs a company whose software has daily meltdowns.

    Nuclear isn't cheap or clean (though I've come to think it's far safer
    than coal...)



    Cheers

    David



    David L. Levy

    Professor and Chair

    Department of Management and Marketing
    University of Massachusetts, Boston

    100 Morrissey Blvd., Boston, MA 02125, USA
    http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/
    <http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/>

    Climate Inc. <http://climateinc.org/> - Business and Climate Change
    Blog



    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I just read Bill Gates speech and was heartened. "The world must
    eliminate all of its carbon emissions and cut energy costs in half in
    order to prevent a climate catastrophe, which will hit the world's poor
    hardest, he said."

    ....

    Gates said the deadline for the world to cut all of its carbon emissions
    is 2050. He suggested that researchers spend the next 20 years inventing
    and perfecting clean-energy technologies, and then the next 20 years
    implementing them.

    ....

    Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear
    technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium
    rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into
    electricity.



    That technology could power the world indefinitely; spent uranium
    supplies in the U.S. alone could power the country for 100 years, he
    said.



    A "traveling wave reactor" would burn uranium waste slowly, meaning a
    60-year supply could be added to a reactor at once and then not touched
    for decades, he said.

    ....

    READ it all at:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/index.html

    Best regards,

    Charles Wankel






    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
    signature database 4864 (20100213) __________

    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

    http://www.eset.com



    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
    signature database 4864 (20100213) __________

    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

    http://www.eset.com


  • 9.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-14-2010 05:56
    I did not say nuclear energy is a good option. A good option is soilent green, or perhaps WWIII.

    We really have to stop consuming. Happiness occurs when you learn to admire without needing to desire. Sure, this will collapse economies, but then we will not need as much electricity.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> Debbie de Lange <ddelange@SUFFOLK.EDU> 14/02/10 10:09 AM >>>
    To those who think that nuclear energy is or might be a good option, please read Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow.

    http://www.amazon.com/Normal-Accidents-Living-High-Risk-Technologies/dp/0691004129

    After this, think about all the costs and risks of nuclear technology from a complete life cycle perspective and weigh that against other options like truly clean, safe approaches such as solar, wind and tidal energy sources. It's not as if it's harder to develop these latter approaches (and others that would fall into the clean, safe, renewable category) than nuclear - it's just that we've had an incredibly powerful nuclear power industry pushing that agenda such that the political will (and investment) has been one sided, against the other technologies.

    I previously worked in the energy industry. I can tell you that they are a bunch of dinosaurs and as they go extinct, they will take us with them, if we listen to them.

    I also worked for IBM and never listen to Bill Gates :-) At work, we passed a computer game around that allowed us to throw pies at his face (ha, ha!). By the way, there was also a study done that wind energy could power the world many times over without any other energy sources. Why do we need "traveling wave reactors, etc." when we have the sun?! I do not understand how anyone could be so naive as to listen to Bill Gates and the nuclear industry.

    Cheers,

    Dr. Debbie de Lange
    Strategy and International Business
    Suffolk University
    Sawyer Business School
    8 Ashburton Place
    Boston, MA
    USA 02108-2770
    617-573-8794


  • 10.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-14-2010 06:21
    Lionel, I was taking your posts to be sarcastic, but after a while, and with direct statements such as below, it is hard to continue to assume sarcasm. If you are serious in stating, directly, that killing humans for food or fomenting a third world war with the goal of killing 90% of the world's population, are good options, then I firmly and directly demand that you stop posting and get out of ONE. I don't want ONE to be even remotely tainted by a sociopath. Charles Wankel -- as moderator, you have taken on a duty that involves screening out, not just forwarding on, all outrageous filth; if that's not the case, then I have no clue why we have started a delayed posting system with moderator (a recent advance, but as I now see, perhaps a necessary one).

    In all seriousness,
    Mike

    PS If I have mistaken something here, please do let me know. It is hard to comprehend a post on an academic list that calls for an end to consumption, to be achieved through mass slaughter. Thus, I may just be too weirded out to know what the hell you're talking about, even though you've said it several times.

    ************************
    Michael L. Barnett
    Professor of Strategy, Said Business School, U. of Oxford
    Research Director, Oxford U. Centre for Corporate Reputation
    Fellow, St. Anne's College, University of Oxford

    http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/research/people/Pages/MikeBarnett.aspx

    View my research on my SSRN Author page:
    http://ssrn.com/author=414796


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    Sent: 14 February 2010 10:56
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    I did not say nuclear energy is a good option. A good option is soilent green, or perhaps WWIII.

    We really have to stop consuming. Happiness occurs when you learn to admire without needing to desire. Sure, this will collapse economies, but then we will not need as much electricity.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> Debbie de Lange <ddelange@SUFFOLK.EDU> 14/02/10 10:09 AM >>>
    To those who think that nuclear energy is or might be a good option, please read Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow.

    http://www.amazon.com/Normal-Accidents-Living-High-Risk-Technologies/dp/0691004129

    After this, think about all the costs and risks of nuclear technology from a complete life cycle perspective and weigh that against other options like truly clean, safe approaches such as solar, wind and tidal energy sources. It's not as if it's harder to develop these latter approaches (and others that would fall into the clean, safe, renewable category) than nuclear - it's just that we've had an incredibly powerful nuclear power industry pushing that agenda such that the political will (and investment) has been one sided, against the other technologies.

    I previously worked in the energy industry. I can tell you that they are a bunch of dinosaurs and as they go extinct, they will take us with them, if we listen to them.

    I also worked for IBM and never listen to Bill Gates :-) At work, we passed a computer game around that allowed us to throw pies at his face (ha, ha!). By the way, there was also a study done that wind energy could power the world many times over without any other energy sources. Why do we need "traveling wave reactors, etc." when we have the sun?! I do not understand how anyone could be so naive as to listen to Bill Gates and the nuclear industry.

    Cheers,

    Dr. Debbie de Lange
    Strategy and International Business
    Suffolk University
    Sawyer Business School
    8 Ashburton Place
    Boston, MA
    USA 02108-2770
    617-573-8794


  • 11.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-14-2010 16:54
    Exactly the reaction I was after. I am being sarcastic to a point, but I am equally outraged about the refusal to accept that nuclear power generation is necessary in some circumstances; windmills are necessary in some circumstances; wave power generation, solar power generation, and so on ... . The alternative is to reduce the demand for electricity. I do think there are too many human beings consuming too much and contributing too little.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> Mike Barnett <michael.barnett@SBS.OX.AC.UK> 14/02/10 10:34 PM >>>
    Lionel, I was taking your posts to be sarcastic, but after a while, and with direct statements such as below, it is hard to continue to assume sarcasm. If you are serious in stating, directly, that killing humans for food or fomenting a third world war with the goal of killing 90% of the world's population, are good options, then I firmly and directly demand that you stop posting and get out of ONE. I don't want ONE to be even remotely tainted by a sociopath. Charles Wankel -- as moderator, you have taken on a duty that involves screening out, not just forwarding on, all outrageous filth; if that's not the case, then I have no clue why we have started a delayed posting system with moderator (a recent advance, but as I now see, perhaps a necessary one).

    In all seriousness,
    Mike

    PS If I have mistaken something here, please do let me know. It is hard to comprehend a post on an academic list that calls for an end to consumption, to be achieved through mass slaughter. Thus, I may just be too weirded out to know what the hell you're talking about, even though you've said it several times.

    ************************
    Michael L. Barnett
    Professor of Strategy, Said Business School, U. of Oxford
    Research Director, Oxford U. Centre for Corporate Reputation
    Fellow, St. Anne's College, University of Oxford

    http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/research/people/Pages/MikeBarnett.aspx

    View my research on my SSRN Author page:
    http://ssrn.com/author=414796


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    Sent: 14 February 2010 10:56
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    I did not say nuclear energy is a good option. A good option is soilent green, or perhaps WWIII.

    We really have to stop consuming. Happiness occurs when you learn to admire without needing to desire. Sure, this will collapse economies, but then we will not need as much electricity.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> Debbie de Lange <ddelange@SUFFOLK.EDU> 14/02/10 10:09 AM >>>
    To those who think that nuclear energy is or might be a good option, please read Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow.

    http://www.amazon.com/Normal-Accidents-Living-High-Risk-Technologies/dp/0691004129

    After this, think about all the costs and risks of nuclear technology from a complete life cycle perspective and weigh that against other options like truly clean, safe approaches such as solar, wind and tidal energy sources. It's not as if it's harder to develop these latter approaches (and others that would fall into the clean, safe, renewable category) than nuclear - it's just that we've had an incredibly powerful nuclear power industry pushing that agenda such that the political will (and investment) has been one sided, against the other technologies.

    I previously worked in the energy industry. I can tell you that they are a bunch of dinosaurs and as they go extinct, they will take us with them, if we listen to them.

    I also worked for IBM and never listen to Bill Gates :-) At work, we passed a computer game around that allowed us to throw pies at his face (ha, ha!). By the way, there was also a study done that wind energy could power the world many times over without any other energy sources. Why do we need "traveling wave reactors, etc." when we have the sun?! I do not understand how anyone could be so naive as to listen to Bill Gates and the nuclear industry.

    Cheers,

    Dr. Debbie de Lange
    Strategy and International Business
    Suffolk University
    Sawyer Business School
    8 Ashburton Place
    Boston, MA
    USA 02108-2770
    617-573-8794


  • 12.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-14-2010 18:04
    Sorry I cannot restrain myself any longer.

    While I do agree there are too many humans, but what solution are you suggesting? We know that it is not going to stabilize (and decline thereafter) before we reach 9 billion. Which countries do you want to completely annihilate to reach your goal of 90% reduction? Like nuclear bombs would solve the problem better than nuclear energy!! And by the way, 6 out of 7 billion of these humans do not get to consume enough to cause climate change. So, why don't we first eliminate the 1 billion that does?

    Why do we need to either deify or vilify Bill Gates or anyone else? Why do China and India have to be the favorite whipping boys of everyone? They did not, and do not, create all the problems of the world, and of course they are not as innocent as they would like to think. Why is complexity so hard to accept? Why do we need to find simple black & white answers? In reality, perhaps, Bill Gates does both good and bad, so do China, India, US, Australia, British and the rest. Copenhagen did not fail because of BASIC countries. It failed because everyone wants to make the most of the situation to their advantage, while assuming the least responsibility for their actions.

    I am sorry to say that the conversation on this listserv has been reduced to the level of trashy blogs. Instead of sound research, we seem more interested in advancing our ideological positions and agendas, as if IPCC has not done enough damage by doing just that.




    On Feb 14, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Lionel Boxer wrote:

    > Exactly the reaction I was after. I am being sarcastic to a point, but I am equally outraged about the refusal to accept that nuclear power generation is necessary in some circumstances; windmills are necessary in some circumstances; wave power generation, solar power generation, and so on ... . The alternative is to reduce the demand for electricity. I do think there are too many human beings consuming too much and contributing too little.
    >
    > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    > Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    > Graduate School of Business
    > my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>>> Mike Barnett <michael.barnett@SBS.OX.AC.UK> 14/02/10 10:34 PM >>>
    > Lionel, I was taking your posts to be sarcastic, but after a while, and with direct statements such as below, it is hard to continue to assume sarcasm. If you are serious in stating, directly, that killing humans for food or fomenting a third world war with the goal of killing 90% of the world's population, are good options, then I firmly and directly demand that you stop posting and get out of ONE. I don't want ONE to be even remotely tainted by a sociopath. Charles Wankel -- as moderator, you have taken on a duty that involves screening out, not just forwarding on, all outrageous filth; if that's not the case, then I have no clue why we have started a delayed posting system with moderator (a recent advance, but as I now see, perhaps a necessary one).
    >
    > In all seriousness,
    > Mike
    >
    > PS If I have mistaken something here, please do let me know. It is hard to comprehend a post on an academic list that calls for an end to consumption, to be achieved through mass slaughter. Thus, I may just be too weirded out to know what the hell you're talking about, even though you've said it several times.
    >
    > ************************
    > Michael L. Barnett
    > Professor of Strategy, Said Business School, U. of Oxford
    > Research Director, Oxford U. Centre for Corporate Reputation
    > Fellow, St. Anne's College, University of Oxford
    >
    > http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/research/people/Pages/MikeBarnett.aspx
    >
    > View my research on my SSRN Author page:
    > http://ssrn.com/author=414796
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    > Sent: 14 February 2010 10:56
    > To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....
    >
    > I did not say nuclear energy is a good option. A good option is soilent green, or perhaps WWIII.
    >
    > We really have to stop consuming. Happiness occurs when you learn to admire without needing to desire. Sure, this will collapse economies, but then we will not need as much electricity.
    >
    > Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    > Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    > Graduate School of Business
    > my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    > now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>>> Debbie de Lange <ddelange@SUFFOLK.EDU> 14/02/10 10:09 AM >>>
    > To those who think that nuclear energy is or might be a good option, please read Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow.
    >
    > http://www.amazon.com/Normal-Accidents-Living-High-Risk-Technologies/dp/0691004129
    >
    > After this, think about all the costs and risks of nuclear technology from a complete life cycle perspective and weigh that against other options like truly clean, safe approaches such as solar, wind and tidal energy sources. It's not as if it's harder to develop these latter approaches (and others that would fall into the clean, safe, renewable category) than nuclear - it's just that we've had an incredibly powerful nuclear power industry pushing that agenda such that the political will (and investment) has been one sided, against the other technologies.
    >
    > I previously worked in the energy industry. I can tell you that they are a bunch of dinosaurs and as they go extinct, they will take us with them, if we listen to them.
    >
    > I also worked for IBM and never listen to Bill Gates :-) At work, we passed a computer game around that allowed us to throw pies at his face (ha, ha!). By the way, there was also a study done that wind energy could power the world many times over without any other energy sources. Why do we need "traveling wave reactors, etc." when we have the sun?! I do not understand how anyone could be so naive as to listen to Bill Gates and the nuclear industry.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Dr. Debbie de Lange
    > Strategy and International Business
    > Suffolk University
    > Sawyer Business School
    > 8 Ashburton Place
    > Boston, MA
    > USA 02108-2770
    > 617-573-8794


  • 13.  All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium rods into electricity .....

    Posted 02-14-2010 23:42
    Dear All,

    If I may, I'd like add my 2 Japanese yen worth on this important topic of
    sustainability and the energy challenge. There are a few misperceptions that
    I have seen posted regarding the status of alternative energy technologies
    that I think deserve to be corrected.
    1. Regarding nuclear power- I am not a nuclear engineer but I have spoken
    with a number of nuclear experts over the course of research I have done on
    nuclear energy policy and the general consensus is that safety of operation
    is less of an issue with modern reactors (even in earthquake prone Japan).
    The concern is what to do with radioactive waste. Although reprocessing can
    extend the life cycle of spent nuclear fuels, in the end, the law of entropy
    wins out and the waste has to be stored somewhere. In North America (both
    Canada and the US), nuclear waste is currently stored in facilities attached
    to nuclear power generation facilities because efforts to identify a central
    dumping ground have been stymied (and rightly so, I may add). With 50 plus
    nations announcing aspirations to join the current club of nuclear powered
    nations, waste disposal is a potential environmental threat around the
    world.
    2. Nuclear fuels- It is perhaps worth occasionally reminding nuclear power
    proponents that nuclear fuels are finite. As such they are subject to the
    same economic and energy security threats as their fossil fuel counterparts
    face. Switching from one finite source of fuel for another is at best a
    short-term solution. Indeed, many of the individuals that support nuclear
    energy do so reluctantly with the knowledge that one problem is being
    substituted for another for the sake of feeding humanity's thirst for
    energy.
    3. Regarding wind power- there have been huge advances in technology and
    project design which has reduced the threat of stochastic wind flows;
    however, critics who point out that wind power is still unpredictable are
    right (by the way, given the track record of coal fired power plants
    breaking down, coal is not exactly a perfectly dependable source of
    electricity either). However, if the top economies dedicated even half of
    what they spend on nuclear power research on electricity storage
    technologies, the intermittent properties of wind (and solar PV) might be
    completely resolved.
    4. Regarding solar- the claim that solar PV in Germany is close to parity
    with grid costs in Germany needs to be revisited and the source more heavily
    scrutinized. I doubt the verity of this claim. While I would not disagree
    with Dr. Srivastiva's assertion that the cost of solar PV is expected to
    achieve 24 EuCent per kWh in 2 to 4 years in Germany, I am surprised to see
    that this price level equates to the cost of electricity generation in
    Germany! If that is true, the cost of electricity generation in Germany is
    about 3 times the global average. Dr. Srivastiva could you please provide a
    source for this assertion as I would like to look into it further. If true
    it has some important insights for national competitive advantage...one of
    the key barriers to carbon prices are concerns that electricity costs would
    rise to a level that impairs national competitiveness....yet, the Germany
    example indicates that this is perhaps not true as Germany is indeed a
    highly competitive nation.
    5. Regarding sustainable energy- While Dr. Boxer's tongue in cheek solution
    is clearly unacceptable on a number of levels, he has raised an important
    point that I think fits in with the remit of ONE. Is there a portfolio of
    alternative energy technologies that can fully substitute for fossil fuel
    powered energy? If so, what does the portfolio look like and how much
    ecological damage will be caused by extracting the resources to build these
    new generation energy technologies. Food for thought- each modern wind
    turbine is over 60 m tall and consumes about 200 tons of steel for the tower
    alone (or concrete equivalent). Imagine what the impact on steel prices
    would be if the entire world shifted to 20% electricity from wind power and
    turbine towers were all still made of steel.

    Finally on the population contraction issue, I agree with Prof. Barnett that
    front-end solutions are the only one's worth considering and even these
    solutions have some fairly negative consequences (colleagues in India and
    China can likely attest to this). But more to the point, even if a
    population contraction could be achieved, what would this do to a global
    economic system that is built on the principle that economic growth (which
    has a record of consuming additional resources) is key to poverty
    alleviation. It is indeed a pickle folks! And it does need to be discussed,
    if only to inform and to encourage further investigation and reflection.

    All the best,
    Scott


    ___________________________________________
    Dr. Scott Valentine
    Assistant Professor, Assistant Director MPP/IP Program
    Graduate School of Public Policy (GraSPP)
    The University of Tokyo
    #616 Administration Burearu Building No. 2
    7-3-1 Hongo, Bunkyo-ku
    Tokyo 113-0033, JAPAN

    phone: +813-5841-1740
    fax: +813-5841-1313
    e-mail: valentine@spp.u-tokyo.ac.jp
    please contact me at scott.valentine@nus.edu.sg up to March 1.
    ___________________________________________





    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion
    [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:54 AM
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium
    rods into electricity .....

    Exactly the reaction I was after. I am being sarcastic to a point, but I am
    equally outraged about the refusal to accept that nuclear power generation
    is necessary in some circumstances; windmills are necessary in some
    circumstances; wave power generation, solar power generation, and so on ...
    . The alternative is to reduce the demand for electricity. I do think
    there are too many human beings consuming too much and contributing too
    little.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> Mike Barnett <michael.barnett@SBS.OX.AC.UK> 14/02/10 10:34 PM >>>
    Lionel, I was taking your posts to be sarcastic, but after a while, and with
    direct statements such as below, it is hard to continue to assume sarcasm.
    If you are serious in stating, directly, that killing humans for food or
    fomenting a third world war with the goal of killing 90% of the world's
    population, are good options, then I firmly and directly demand that you
    stop posting and get out of ONE. I don't want ONE to be even remotely
    tainted by a sociopath. Charles Wankel -- as moderator, you have taken on a
    duty that involves screening out, not just forwarding on, all outrageous
    filth; if that's not the case, then I have no clue why we have started a
    delayed posting system with moderator (a recent advance, but as I now see,
    perhaps a necessary one).


    In all seriousness,
    Mike

    PS If I have mistaken something here, please do let me know. It is hard to
    comprehend a post on an academic list that calls for an end to consumption,
    to be achieved through mass slaughter. Thus, I may just be too weirded out
    to know what the hell you're talking about, even though you've said it
    several times.

    ************************
    Michael L. Barnett
    Professor of Strategy, Said Business School, U. of Oxford
    Research Director, Oxford U. Centre for Corporate Reputation
    Fellow, St. Anne's College, University of Oxford

    http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/research/people/Pages/MikeBarnett.aspx

    View my research on my SSRN Author page:
    http://ssrn.com/author=414796


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion
    [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel Boxer
    Sent: 14 February 2010 10:56
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: All we have to do is create a technology turning spent uranium
    rods into electricity .....

    I did not say nuclear energy is a good option. A good option is soilent
    green, or perhaps WWIII.

    We really have to stop consuming. Happiness occurs when you learn to admire
    without needing to desire. Sure, this will collapse economies, but then we
    will not need as much electricity.

    Lionel Boxer CD PhD MBA BTech(IndEng) - 0411267256
    Associate of RMIT University - lionel.boxer@rmit.edu.au
    Graduate School of Business
    my "Assessment of Quality Systems with Positioning Theory"
    now in a googe book - see link at http://intergon.net
    >>> Debbie de Lange <ddelange@SUFFOLK.EDU> 14/02/10 10:09 AM >>>
    To those who think that nuclear energy is or might be a good option, please
    read Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow.

    http://www.amazon.com/Normal-Accidents-Living-High-Risk-Technologies/dp/0691
    004129

    After this, think about all the costs and risks of nuclear technology from a
    complete life cycle perspective and weigh that against other options like
    truly clean, safe approaches such as solar, wind and tidal energy sources.
    It's not as if it's harder to develop these latter approaches (and others
    that would fall into the clean, safe, renewable category) than nuclear -
    it's just that we've had an incredibly powerful nuclear power industry
    pushing that agenda such that the political will (and investment) has been
    one sided, against the other technologies.

    I previously worked in the energy industry. I can tell you that they are a
    bunch of dinosaurs and as they go extinct, they will take us with them, if
    we listen to them.

    I also worked for IBM and never listen to Bill Gates :-) At work, we passed
    a computer game around that allowed us to throw pies at his face (ha, ha!).
    By the way, there was also a study done that wind energy could power the
    world many times over without any other energy sources. Why do we need
    "traveling wave reactors, etc." when we have the sun?! I do not understand
    how anyone could be so naive as to listen to Bill Gates and the nuclear
    industry.

    Cheers,

    Dr. Debbie de Lange
    Strategy and International Business
    Suffolk University
    Sawyer Business School
    8 Ashburton Place
    Boston, MA
    USA 02108-2770
    617-573-8794