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  • 1.  Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Posted 06-09-2008 13:57
    Request for help/advice...

    I've been approached by a paper bag producing company...one that is partnering with many progressive companies to produce post-consumer waste bags (such as for Whole Foods).

    As one might imagine, plastic bag manufacturers are pushing back, claiming that when one does a life cycle analysis, plastic bags can be less intrusive to the environment than paper bags in both the production and use stage.

    On the surface, the plastic bag company claims don't look supportable. But what does the data, if there is any, say on this??

    I've been asked if there is any way to do this kind of scientific analysis, or whether it has been done and if so, by whom or what organization or company?

    Thanks for any help on this.

    Jon Entine


  • 2.  Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Posted 06-09-2008 22:53
    Jon,

    I can't cite a specific study, but the discussion of the negative environmental impacts of plastic bags tends to focus on what happens post-consumer use. Many (probably millions a day on a global basis) end up not being recycled or properly landfilled/incinerated. When this occurs, they end up as litter, and can work their way into aquatic ecosystems. Particularly in marine ecosystems they are ingested by animals that mistake them for jellyfish, contributing to starvation. I believe they can cause other problems, but that is probably the single greatest problem. While paper bags may be more material and energy intensive to produce, if they end up as litter they biodegrade pretty quickly.

    Their manufacture also take huge quantities of oil -- as much as 37 million barrels per year in China, according to the folllowing article: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=china-sacks-plastic-bags

    Gordon

    Gordon Rands
    Western Illinois University

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jon Entine" <runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET>
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
    Sent: Monday, June 9, 2008 12:56:57 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
    Subject: Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Request for help/advice...

    I've been approached by a paper bag producing company...one that is partnering with many progressive companies to produce post-consumer waste bags (such as for Whole Foods).

    As one might imagine, plastic bag manufacturers are pushing back, claiming that when one does a life cycle analysis, plastic bags can be less intrusive to the environment than paper bags in both the production and use stage.

    On the surface, the plastic bag company claims don't look supportable. But what does the data, if there is any, say on this??

    I've been asked if there is any way to do this kind of scientific analysis, or whether it has been done and if so, by whom or what organization or company?

    Thanks for any help on this.

    Jon Entine


  • 3.  Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Posted 06-10-2008 02:13

    NPR reported yesterday that 'urban cows' in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> have been eating discarded plastic bags and it is killing them. Autopsies have shown 60+ plastic bags in the stomach(s?) of dead cows. The initial impulse after the public outcry (since cows are indeed sacred in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>) was to ban plastic bags. After lobbying by the plastic bag manufacturers the solution was a policy to 'thicken' the bags so the cows would not eat them, and to ban thin bags (!). The result? Urban cows continue to die and the public's attention has moved on to other issues. (Perhaps the combined oil and food crisis?) I heard a similar report about albatrosses some months ago – eating plastic bags floating in the ocean, and dying of malnutrition on 'full' stomachs. I wonder if this is taken into account in the plastic LCA?

     

    Just a bizarre anecdote, not scientific. Hopefully it won't kick up a sandstorm over SRI reporting ;-)

     

    John Selsky

     

    .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

    Dr. John W. Selsky

    Associate Professor, Management

    <st1:city w:st="on">University of South</st1:city> <st1:state w:st="on">Florida</st1:state> <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Lakeland</st1:place></st1:city>

    <st1:street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">3433 Winter Lake Road</st1:address></st1:street>

    <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Lakeland</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">FL</st1:state> <st1:postalcode w:st="on">33803</st1:postalcode></st1:place>

    +1-863-667-7718

    +1-863-667-7751 fax

    jselsky@lakeland.usf.edu

    .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.


    From: <st1:personname w:st="on">Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion</st1:personname> [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu] On Behalf Of Jon Entine
    Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:57 PM
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
    Subject: Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

     

    Request for help/advice...

    I've been approached by a paper bag producing company...one that is partnering with many progressive companies to produce post-consumer waste bags (such as for Whole Foods).

    As one might imagine, plastic bag manufacturers are pushing back, claiming that when one does a life cycle analysis, plastic bags can be less intrusive to the environment than paper bags in both the production and use stage.

    On the surface, the plastic bag company claims don't look supportable. But what does the data, if there is any, say on this??

    I've been asked if there is any way to do this kind of scientific analysis, or whether it has been done and if so, by whom or what organization or company?

    Thanks for any help on this.

    Jon Entine



  • 4.  Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Posted 06-10-2008 09:02

    Jon, 

    In the article listed below, Weisman describes some of the problems caused by the vast amount of plastic that is neither recycled nor landfilled and that makes its way into the food chain, oceans, beaches, etc.

    Alan Weisman (2007). "Polymers are forever," Orion Magazine, 26(1):  17-25.

    Also, if you do a google search on "Trash Island" and then take a look at the life cycle of paper bags, you will see why some are thinking we should be using and reusing cloth bags at the grocery store and elsewhere. 


    John Jermier



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion
    [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu]On Behalf Of Gordon P Rands
    Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 10:53 PM
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
    Subject: Re: Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs.
    plastic bags


    Jon,

    I can't cite a specific study, but the discussion of the negative environmental impacts of plastic bags tends to focus on what happens post-consumer use.  Many (probably millions a day on a global basis) end up not being recycled or properly landfilled/incinerated.  When this occurs, they end up as litter, and can work their way into aquatic ecosystems.  Particularly in marine ecosystems they are ingested by animals that mistake them for jellyfish, contributing to starvation.  I believe they can cause other problems, but that is probably the single greatest problem. While paper bags may be more material and energy intensive to produce, if they end up as litter they biodegrade pretty quickly.

    Their manufacture also take huge quantities of oil -- as much as 37 million barrels per year in China, according to the folllowing article:  http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=china-sacks-plastic-bags

    Gordon

    Gordon Rands
    Western Illinois University
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jon Entine" <runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET>
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
    Sent: Monday, June 9, 2008 12:56:57 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
    Subject: Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Request for help/advice...

    I've been approached by a paper bag producing company...one that is partnering with many progressive companies to produce post-consumer waste bags (such as for Whole Foods).

    As one might imagine, plastic bag manufacturers are pushing back, claiming that when one does a life cycle analysis, plastic bags can be less intrusive to the environment than paper bags in both the production and use stage.

    On the surface, the plastic bag company claims don't look supportable. But what does the data, if there is any, say on this??

    I've been asked if there is any way to do this kind of scientific analysis, or whether it has been done and if so, by whom or what organization or company?

    Thanks for any help on this.

    Jon Entine



  • 5.  Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Posted 06-11-2008 13:14
    Hello Jon and ONE List-Serve Members,
    I consulted a local contact with extensive experience in polymer physics research (my husband Rob Peterson, 3M Company) for assistance with this question - taking it beyond my normal scope of 'business sustainability.' Here is Rob's response:

    A short summary
    1. With the exception of a very new development between Braskem and Dow to
    produce ethylene from sugar cane ( ethanol dehydrated over alumina,
    silica,zeolite catalyst), the feedstock for PE is petroleum
    naptha/feedstock. The use of this feedstock, in a time of peak oil, to
    produce a low technology, low value, short lifespan,environmentally
    sensitive product is something the plastics industry has never been able to
    address. The plastics industry, along with others, desires to truncate
    discussion of life cycle analysis to an abbreviated form, not the entirety
    of the issue, ( i.e. from raw material input through end of life
    reassimilation into raw mateiral again, ref. 'Cradle-to-Cradle' by W.
    McDonough. A paper bag comes from a renewable resource,does not have an end
    of life environmental hazard, and is naturally biodegradable.

    2.I have seen eco-profile production cost for PLA resins ( renewable
    resource based and compostable) , to be contrasted to PE, done by the
    National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Golden, Colorado, ( ref. Industrial
    Biotechnology, Volume 3, 11/1/2007). Also reference LCA interest by Ramani
    Narayan @ Michigan State University on using biobased materials. He has
    published much in this area.

    Hope this helps!
    Lori

    Dr. Lori A. Peterson
    Director, Augsburg for Adults
    Augsburg College
    115C Oren Gateway Center, CB 65
    2211 Riverside Avenue
    Minneapolis, MN 55454
    Ph. 612-330-1637
    Fx. 612-330-1607


    >>> Jon Entine <runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET> 6/9/2008 12:56 PM >>>
    Request for help/advice...

    I've been approached by a paper bag producing company...one that is
    partnering with many progressive companies to produce post-consumer waste
    bags (such as for Whole Foods).

    As one might imagine, plastic bag manufacturers are pushing back, claiming
    that when one does a life cycle analysis, plastic bags can be less intrusive
    to the environment than paper bags in both the production and use stage.

    On the surface, the plastic bag company claims don't look supportable. But
    what does the data, if there is any, say on this??

    I've been asked if there is any way to do this kind of scientific analysis,
    or whether it has been done and if so, by whom or what organization or
    company?

    Thanks for any help on this.

    Jon Entine


  • 6.  Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Posted 06-11-2008 16:23
    Lori,
    Rob's response is enlightening. Presumably the plastics industry's
    'truncation' of the LCA would externalize the effects of ingestion of
    that low-value product by albatrosses, urban cows et al.

    John

    .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
    Dr. John W. Selsky
    Associate Professor, Management
    University of South Florida Lakeland
    3433 Winter Lake Road
    Lakeland, FL 33803
    +1-863-667-7718
    +1-863-667-7751 fax
    jselsky@lakeland.usf.edu
    .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Organizations and the Natural Environment Discussion
    [mailto:ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu] On Behalf Of Lori Peterson
    Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 1:14 PM
    To: ONE-L@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
    Subject: Re: Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs.
    plastic bags

    Hello Jon and ONE List-Serve Members,
    I consulted a local contact with extensive experience in polymer physics
    research (my husband Rob Peterson, 3M Company) for assistance with this
    question - taking it beyond my normal scope of 'business
    sustainability.' Here is Rob's response:

    A short summary
    1. With the exception of a very new development between Braskem and Dow
    to
    produce ethylene from sugar cane ( ethanol dehydrated over alumina,
    silica,zeolite catalyst), the feedstock for PE is petroleum
    naptha/feedstock. The use of this feedstock, in a time of peak oil, to
    produce a low technology, low value, short lifespan,environmentally
    sensitive product is something the plastics industry has never been able
    to
    address. The plastics industry, along with others, desires to truncate
    discussion of life cycle analysis to an abbreviated form, not the
    entirety
    of the issue, ( i.e. from raw material input through end of life
    reassimilation into raw mateiral again, ref. 'Cradle-to-Cradle' by W.
    McDonough. A paper bag comes from a renewable resource,does not have an
    end
    of life environmental hazard, and is naturally biodegradable.

    2.I have seen eco-profile production cost for PLA resins ( renewable
    resource based and compostable) , to be contrasted to PE, done by the
    National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Golden, Colorado, ( ref.
    Industrial
    Biotechnology, Volume 3, 11/1/2007). Also reference LCA interest by
    Ramani
    Narayan @ Michigan State University on using biobased materials. He has
    published much in this area.

    Hope this helps!
    Lori

    Dr. Lori A. Peterson
    Director, Augsburg for Adults
    Augsburg College
    115C Oren Gateway Center, CB 65
    2211 Riverside Avenue
    Minneapolis, MN 55454
    Ph. 612-330-1637
    Fx. 612-330-1607


    >>> Jon Entine <runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET> 6/9/2008 12:56 PM >>>
    Request for help/advice...

    I've been approached by a paper bag producing company...one that is
    partnering with many progressive companies to produce post-consumer
    waste
    bags (such as for Whole Foods).

    As one might imagine, plastic bag manufacturers are pushing back,
    claiming
    that when one does a life cycle analysis, plastic bags can be less
    intrusive
    to the environment than paper bags in both the production and use stage.

    On the surface, the plastic bag company claims don't look supportable.
    But
    what does the data, if there is any, say on this??

    I've been asked if there is any way to do this kind of scientific
    analysis,
    or whether it has been done and if so, by whom or what organization or
    company?

    Thanks for any help on this.

    Jon Entine


  • 7.  Environmental impact of producing/using paper bags vs. plastic bags

    Posted 06-11-2008 22:28
    I found this reference useful when reading on this topic  in preparation for a course:
    http://www.cfd.rmit.edu.au/programs/life_cycle_assessment/lca_of_degradable_plastic_bags.

    Another good LCA problem these days is compact fluorescents versus incandescent bulbs. I don't know if I have this sketch entirely accurate, but it goes roughly like this:  In terms of lifetime energy use (including manufacturing), it's a no-brainer -- the CFLs win. However, the CFLs contain mercury, and incandescents don't. So there are life cycle issues associated with the production, manufacturing, and disposal of the mercury. But then you can look the mercury released into the environment by burning the additional coal necessary to power the incandescents, and you find out that more mercury is released by the burning the coal. So that means you have to think about the power source. Finally (at least for the US), you can get into the USEPA's mercury ruling and the decision by the US Court of Appeals to vacate that ruling ....

    Best -- BC

    --------
    Lori Peterson wrote:
    484FC18B.378C.001C.0@augsburg.edu" type="cite">
    Hello Jon and ONE List-Serve Members, I consulted a local contact with extensive experience in polymer physics research (my husband Rob Peterson, 3M Company) for assistance with this question - taking it beyond my normal scope of 'business sustainability.' Here is Rob's response:  A short summary 1. With the exception of a very new development between Braskem and Dow to produce ethylene from sugar cane ( ethanol dehydrated over alumina, silica,zeolite catalyst), the feedstock for PE is petroleum naptha/feedstock. The use of this feedstock, in a time of peak oil, to produce a low technology, low value, short lifespan,environmentally sensitive product is something the plastics industry has never been able to address. The plastics industry, along with others, desires to truncate discussion of life cycle analysis to an abbreviated form, not the entirety of the issue, ( i.e. from raw material input through end of life reassimilation into raw mateiral again, ref. 'Cradle-to-Cradle' by W. McDonough. A paper bag comes from a renewable resource,does not have an end of life environmental hazard, and is naturally biodegradable.  2.I have seen eco-profile production cost for PLA resins ( renewable resource based and compostable) , to be contrasted to PE, done by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Golden, Colorado, ( ref. Industrial Biotechnology, Volume 3, 11/1/2007). Also reference LCA interest by Ramani Narayan @ Michigan State University on using biobased materials. He has published much in this area.  Hope this helps! Lori  Dr. Lori A. Peterson Director, Augsburg for Adults Augsburg College 115C Oren Gateway Center, CB 65 2211 Riverside Avenue Minneapolis, MN  55454 Ph. 612-330-1637 Fx. 612-330-1607     
    Jon Entine <runjonrun@EARTHLINK.NET> 6/9/2008 12:56 PM >>>         
     Request for help/advice...  I've been approached by a paper bag producing company...one that is partnering with many progressive companies to produce post-consumer waste bags (such as for Whole Foods).  As one might imagine, plastic bag manufacturers are pushing back, claiming that when one does a life cycle analysis, plastic bags can be less intrusive to the environment than paper bags in both the production and use stage.  On the surface, the plastic bag company claims don't look supportable. But what does the data, if there is any, say on this??  I've been asked if there is any way to do this kind of scientific analysis, or whether it has been done and if so, by whom or what organization or company?  Thanks for any help on this.  Jon Entine   

    --  Bob Clemen Fuqua School of Business Duke University, Box 90120 Durham, NC 27708-0120  Phone: 919-660-8005 Fax: 919-684-2818 WWW: http://faculty.fuqua.duke.edu/~clemen/bio/